The Biblical Leadership Show
Inspiration. Wisdom. Leadership from a Higher Perspective.
Welcome to The Biblical Leadership Show, your go-to resource for discovering timeless truths from Scripture that empower leaders to inspire, influence, and impact their world. Hosted by Tim Lansford and Dr. Dean Posey, this podcast takes a deep dive into the Bible’s profound lessons on leadership, bringing fresh perspectives to timeless principles that resonate in today’s fast-paced, ever-changing world.
Each episode is packed with:
- Powerful Biblical Insights: We explore the leadership styles of biblical figures like Moses, Esther, David, and Jesus, extracting practical strategies for overcoming challenges, building trust, and creating lasting impact.
- Real-World Applications: Learn how to integrate biblical leadership principles into your workplace, team, or organization while navigating the complexities of modern leadership.
- Inspiration for Growth: Whether you’re a seasoned leader or just stepping into a leadership role, our content is designed to motivate and equip you to lead with integrity, compassion, and vision.
- Stories and Wisdom: Hear personal stories and guest interviews that highlight how biblical leadership transforms lives and businesses.
Leadership isn’t just about titles or power—it’s about serving others, making wise decisions, and leaving a legacy of faith and purpose. Through relatable discussions, actionable takeaways, and encouragement rooted in Scripture, The Biblical Leadership Show provides the tools and insights you need to lead boldly and faithfully in every sphere of life.
Whether you’re leading in the boardroom, the church, your community, or your home, this podcast is for you. Together, we’ll navigate the intersection of faith and leadership, bridging ancient wisdom with modern relevance.
New episodes drop every Tuesday. Subscribe now and lead with purpose, faith, and courage!
The Biblical Leadership Show
Tenacity in Trials: The Lessons of Daniel
Join us as we explore the profound lessons of commitment and integrity found in the book of Daniel. Our engaging discussion delves into the historical context behind one of the Bible's most compelling figures, highlighting Daniel's remarkable faith and the incredible stories of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace and Daniel's own trials in the lion’s den.
Through these narratives, we uncover critical leadership lessons that resonate within our modern experiences. How do we stand firm to our values, even when faced with immense pressure? How do we ensure future generations of leadership are prepared and aligned with core principles? We discuss the importance of integrity in leadership and reflect on the real challenge of not confusing popular opinion with moral conviction.
This episode invites listeners to draw inspiration from these timeless stories and apply their impactful lessons in their own lives. If you are navigating challenges, whether personal or professional, the stories of Daniel offer guidance in staying true to your mission. Connect with us as we unpack these themes and encourage discourse around faith, leadership, and resilience. Don’t forget to subscribe, share your insights, and leave a review to help amplify our message of courage and commitment!
Alrighty, yeah, uh-huh yeah, come on, come on, alrighty. Welcome to another exciting, exciting, exciting episode, dr P.
Speaker 2:Hey Tim, you gotta say it right. You gotta say it right. Welcome welcome welcome, I'm telling you how are we doing today, dr P? I'm doing doing good, still down here in Waco and upstairs in the studio at the church, and so, yeah, doing good, yeah, I mean, it's been a little bit.
Speaker 1:Since we're running behind on this, this is probably going to come out a day late. Yeah, it's the day before we're supposed to upload. So, uh, I'm gonna upload this as soon as we're done, because our schedules have just sort of been a little bit off. I've been traveling for the last 15 days and on the road and you're out of town and it's.
Speaker 2:It's just been a mess but I also had covid for the third time that was then you had covid had COVID and oh my goodness, that has never been pleasant.
Speaker 1:I don't even know how many times I've had COVID. Oh yeah, Quite a few, so you know.
Speaker 2:That knocked me down, yeah, but I'm back, I'm feeling great. So, yeah, it's good to see you, brother, even though we're 100 miles away.
Speaker 1:I know the technology is awesome. I was like it's good to see you, brother, even though we're 100 miles away. I know the technology is awesome. I was like many hundreds away, so we're within 100.
Speaker 2:We're getting close. Yes, we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, how's everything down there? Let's just catch up with you real fast. I mean, how's the church? How's everything?
Speaker 2:Church is going really good. I've said before, just an honor to be here. Those people who are joining us for the very first time right now I am in Waco, texas, at First Methodist Church. I am the interim pastor until the end of April, so the pastor that was here is now working for the bishop starting January 1st. And this was the church that I went to while I was in college. I was on staff here as a college director when I was in college and so it's just an honor to be here. Diana and I used to worship in this church when we were at Baylor church, when we were at Baylor, and so for them to call me up and say, you know, could you fill in until our permanent person comes on May 1st, I said I could do that. So it's been fun. I mean, I get to know the people I get to preach, you know, and it's just been an honor and a privilege to be down here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty exciting. You only thought you were going to retire, See.
Speaker 2:I had that feeling, that wasn't going to work out real well.
Speaker 1:So I tried to start a church for you. Real fast. You decided to go back there and'll get the church of Tim going soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've been traveling. You go to the National Home Builders Convention in Vegas. Probably a big role in that every year. Yeah, I have meetings.
Speaker 1:I have all my national meetings. This was a busy one. I was out there. I was in state in Austin prior and then went out to Vegas for International Builder Show. So I was out there for nine days, busy, nonstop meetings. I mean it's just great.
Speaker 2:So tell our listeners how many people go to this meeting in Vegas. I mean, it's massive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we're the third biggest show out there behind SEMA and the CES show. I mean, I think we had, with a couple of different things, right around 140,000 people. We take up all the holes. I think we had a million million, four million five on square footage. It's just massive. I did 70 miles in nine days. That's what my walk. Wow, 70 miles in nine days, that's what my walk Wow, 70 miles.
Speaker 2:This home builders convention is it for not just builders, but is it for people who make new products for home building. And so you have a lot of things where people can show their new products and get the builders to try to say, hey, this paint's better, or this particular product's better for your bathroom or your kitchen or whatever, if it involves building a house or anything in a house or anything related inside.
Speaker 1:Outside it is at the show. It's a massive show, so yeah, so a lot of people show it up. You know vendors to builders, to remodelers, you name it, everybody shows up. And then there's a huge education program that we do out there as well, and you're a part of all that.
Speaker 2:And then there's a huge education program that we do out there as well. So, and you're, you're part of all that. And then the leadership. So, wow, you've been doing that for a long time I have so and uh yeah, so uh, it's, uh, it's a good, it's a good gig.
Speaker 1:I like it out there. You know I love uh, you know, being part and giving back to our industry and and uh being part of uh the leadership and putting it all together for everybody.
Speaker 2:Well, good, I'm glad you're back.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And been a few weeks just traveling. Just got to do work. I know I got to buckle down for a couple weeks and make some money. Yeah, go back and make some money.
Speaker 1:That's what I had to come. I ran out of money in Vegas. I had to come back, all right. So, I'm sure they love catching up with us, but let's talk to them about what we're going to talk about here. We're going to do Daniel today, isn't that correct?
Speaker 2:We are on the book of Daniel. I would think that even if people are not familiar with the Bible, I would think that they would be at least heard of. They might not be familiar with, but they would have at least heard of one of the two stories in the book of Daniel. One is the three men in the fiery furnace, where there was a fourth one that showed up and the men in the furnace did not get burned. Or they might have heard the story about Daniel and the lion's den, and so if they think man, this is just like I'm in a feel like I'm in a lion's den. There's all kinds of modern references that come with that particular true story and it's right here from the book of Daniel. So it's a powerful book. It's really splitting up to two parts. The first part of the book is really a historical account of Daniel, and not just his friends of Daniel, and not just his friends but people who were in exile with him in Babylon. And then the second part of the book is some visions that Daniel had and they relate to actually the last book of the Bible, the book of Revelation. So it ties the Old Testament and the New Testament together. But let's just talk a little bit about the history of Daniel so that people can understand why these stories even took place. And then we can throw in some leadership, because the primary leadership characteristics come from Daniel himself and the challenges he faced with the environment he was in, and the fact that he stayed true to God during all those trials to me is a great leadership principle about staying true to the mission, even though we faced some serious trials in our business. And so just a little history for those of you who are interested.
Speaker 2:And so the Assyrian Empire was conquered by the Babylonians. The Babylonians came to Jerusalem, and in 605 BC, daniel was a part of a group of people that were exiled to Babylon in 605 BC. Now, sometimes, if we know Jewish history, we think that didn't happen until 586 BC, when the Babylonians destroyed the city of Jerusalem. There was actually several waves of exiles going from Israel to Babylon, and Daniel was a part of that. He was a young man at the time. Him and three of his buddies we know them as Shadrach, meshach and Abednego were also a part of that group. They were exiled to Babylon, and so they lived in a foreign country. I mean, they were exiled hundreds of miles away from their home. They were taken away from their home, they were put into that.
Speaker 2:Daniel had some incredible talent that comes out in this part of the book about interpreting dreams and being faithful to God, and he was being accused of certain things and he stood his ground. And so the king put up this big statue and everybody's supposed to bow down to the statue, and the friends said no, we're not going to do that. And anybody who didn't, they were going to be thrown in the fiery furnace. And so Daniel's three buddies were thrown in the fiery furnace. Obviously, the furnace was so hot that it even burned up the people that threw them in, but God protected them in that midst of that. In fact, we read in the Scripture that they looked in the furnace and saw a fourth person you know, dancing in there, which we relate as Christ, there with them protecting them. And so they pulled out of the furnace.
Speaker 2:And then later Daniel was accused of you know which? He said I do, I worship the God of the one true God and not I'm not going to worship this king of Babylon as a god. And so he was thrown into the lion's den. And so those are the two big stories in the first part of the book of Daniel. And we can see that for Daniel, no matter what was happening in his life, he always prioritized his commitment to God. It was always the top priority in his life and he didn't ever compromise his principles. He stuck to a very strong moral conviction in his leadership Right and I think what a great lesson for just leadership principles. And the question is when we face difficult times, whatever that could be in our life, in our business, do we stay true to our values or do we allow our circumstances to dictate our values or prioritize our commitments? And that to me is a sign of a really good that you stay focused on the mission, the vision, your commitments don't change in priority because of your circumstances.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and that's one of those things you know, if you can stand strong with your principles under pressure I mean what extreme pressure he was under right, oh my goodness, and you know. And then from a leader how many times do leaders cave because this is the status quo, this is the way everybody else is doing it. So we get into that groupthink mentality where we jump on board, sometimes as leaders, and if you can stand and be your own person and hold true to your core values, I mean that's the best way to do. It is be a leader, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so I probably have said this more than once on our podcast over the last year and a half. But I have a little sign in my office at the house that's right above my desk, and the sign says this I got this from my father-in-law. He said never confuse the will of the majority with the will of God. And so many times we see that in the Scripture. We see that when Jesus was in front of Pilate and the people that he just caved into the will of the loudest person that was yelling to the crowd even though he felt like he didn't want to do it, but he caved. And so the question for leaders is are we caving in to the pressure of the person that's griping the most? You know the greasy wheel. What does it say? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It could be one person in our organization. That's really you know being loud and we cave to them, and that's really not a great thing to do right, that's exactly right?
Speaker 1:so it's you know, throughout this you know and through through my show research, and so Daniel was sort of interpreting a lot of the dreams. Right, he was one of the interpreters of the dreams, is that correct?
Speaker 2:Correct. He could interpret dreams. God gave him the ability to interpret dreams, and so we see that that's a significant part of the story in the book of Daniel, even though that's kind of a, if you just look at Daniel, you don't think of that part, but it is a significant part of the story. And gave him favor to the king, right? Yeah, yeah, I thought that was very good. He was humble in the whole thing. I mean, he had this gift, it was an amazing gift, but he just remained. Yeah, I thought that was very good and it's like. No, he stayed humble. And what a great lesson for leadership is that. You know, sometimes we allow our position to go to our head and we think that we're just because we are the boss, we're better than other people, or we get the big head because of our position, and that just creates all kinds of problems over time. It just does. Absolutely. That just creates all kinds of problems over time. It just does.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, Absolutely. And you know how does his friends get into the furnace, right? You know, is there—they just—none of them would bow down to the statue and worship the king. And were there any other people that defied it? Because of God, or what's the background?
Speaker 2:We don't know that, but it sounds like that these three were the main ones that you know. There was a big statue and it was massive. Okay, this massive statue, and everybody was supposed to bow down to this statue. And so we see here in chapter 3 of Daniel that anybody who did not bow down to the statue would be thrown into the fiery furnace. In fact, in other words, if you don not bow down to the statue would be thrown into the fiery furnace. In fact, in other words, if you don't bow down to the statue of the king, you're going to die. Okay, and so there was. They would sound this horn or a pipe or some musical instrument. And as soon as they heard that, that was the cue for everybody to stop what they're doing and turn and bow down to the statue. And so they, these three guys, shadrach, meshach and Abednego said we're not going to bow down to anybody, but the true God, the true God. And so he, these three guys, were brought before the king and he said you know, you're not going to bow down to me, you're going in the furnace.
Speaker 2:And what's amazing about this story is one of the most, maybe the most important sentences in the entire Bible about faith and I'm just going to read it because it's in Daniel, chapter 3. But it starts with verse 17. So Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, they're getting ready to be thrown in the furnace and they say this Our God, whom we serve, is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand, o king. And then verse 18 is so powerful but if not, if not, if God doesn't save us from the fiery furnace and we die, be it known, o King, that we will not serve your gods or worship you or the image. So he said you know, no matter what, no matter if it costs me our life, we are not going to compromise our principles. We're just not going to do it.
Speaker 2:And wow, that just takes faith, it takes guts. And I just think it's an example to all of us as far as what type of commitment, what's the level of our commitment? You know, you see, on movies you hear things like well, everybody has their price. These guys didn't have a price. You know, they couldn't be bought, they couldn't be manipulated, they couldn't be coerced. They said you know what we're serving God and even if it costs us our life, we're not going to change. Wow, what a lesson for that Very important part, one of the most powerful statements of faith in the entire Bible, and what a great lesson for us. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I thought there was some very unique stuff in here. You know from figuring out how to be faithful, I think some of the visions of the statue with all the different parts of the thing and then the brick coming down and shattering the statue, and sort of the symbolism that God's reign will go over any human's reign. I think that's the way I interpreted that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that God is eventually going to break that or that kingdom's going to be destroyed. And you know, so many times when we think and just think about leadership for a second, you know we're in the leadership position and we think that we're just going to stay on for eternity. We don't have a succession plan because we don't think nothing's going to ever happen to us. We're irreplaceable. And I think that's one of the greatest weaknesses of so many organizations is they don't think about what's going to happen in five and 10 years from now. What's the succession plan? And so something happens to the leader, whatever that might be, and the whole company falls apart because they have not thought about what's going to happen next.
Speaker 1:And so you know that's, many companies don't have a succession plan. I mean, that's one of the hottest topics that I get asked can you do succession planning? Well, yes, I said I can sit down with you first, right, and it should be in place. You should have some kind of idea. But if you don't, then we got a lot of work to do. But yeah, 100%, People don't put it down. They don't take their leaders and get them ready for success. They just throw them in there and go all right, it's your turn to lead the ship. Hop up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't train them. And the same thing with true. Personally let's talk about how this is personal I think everybody should have a will. I think everybody should have a will. I think everybody should have a will. Everybody should have a living will, power of attorney, all those documents, because we just don't know. And the thing about it is in the state of Texas, if you don't have a will, the state of Texas has one written already for you and so you need to plan, for you know you want to live as long will. It's like no, we've got to do this for your spouse, for your kids. It's never too young. You're never too young to have a will. You're never too old to have a will.
Speaker 2:I've met too many people who have passed away their families and the person did not have a will and it just drags onto the family. I mean going through probate and dealing with attorneys and and all this kind of stuff. It just creates so many burdens on the family and the people that are left behind. And the same thing is true with business. It's like okay, let's have, let's have a plan of action for okay, I'm going to retire in five years. Let's think what are we going to do in the next five years to get someone ready to take this business over, and you deal with that all the time in your work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know where you're getting five years, I mean 25 years. I got young kids right.
Speaker 2:Exactly right? Yeah, no, but you deal with it with businesses all the time. Absolutely, you know they have a great business, but they don't have a plan, you know that's one of the people I.
Speaker 1:I got asked that you know, in one of the shows. It goes what's your exit plan? Right, I'm like, well, I don't have an exit plan right now because that isn't on my horizon to have an exit plan as far as selling the company and all that stuff. I was in a meeting with a person who was asking me I'm like I have things set up for when I get to the point where I want to do an exit plan, but I'm by far not there. But at the same time, I've got structures in place that is good for passing this down to relatives and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just got to think about it. You hope it never doesn't happen, and if it does happen, it happens a long time from now 25, 50 years, 100 years with medicines.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go for another 100 years.
Speaker 2:You're going to go for another 100?.
Speaker 1:Figure out how to make that happen.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, so let's get back to the book of Daniel. So he had these. The king had dreams, and because God gave him the ability to interpret dreams, it actually elevated Daniel in the eyes of the king and gave him influence with the king. And I can only imagine here he is a Jewish man in a foreign land.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to think of the courage it took to say I can do that, and I'm not bragging, but I have the ability to do that. And so I'm just thinking about the people in an organization, even if it's a company of four or five people, do you really know the talents and the skills of all your people, skills of all your people? Is there any added value to the people? You've hired that because they've been working for you, but you don't know what they did before you. You don't realize that they could really do some graphic art for you or some social media for you, and you haven't tapped into that expertise, and if you did, it could really help your business grow. So knowing the skill and expertise of your people is really, I think, a good role for a leader.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. Most people don't ask, they just take them. They go through the interview process. Everything's like patting them on the back, making them happy, I'm your boss. And then when they're brought on, then they throw them in a desk with 12 other people and said there you go. And then you don't see the boss for another three weeks and you're happy to have a job. So you don't care. But I mean, you don't know how these other people as a leader I don't know who I set them down next to the three people that I'm sitting in the cubicle with. They might really not like me as a boss. So instantly I've took my new hire and tarnished everything that that new hire has as far as loyalty to me and wanting to work hard, and they've been tainted from the beginning.
Speaker 1:So it's very interesting and if you go through and have that constant contact, when you first meet somebody and you hire them, ask them what their skills are, ask them what they're good, what they can do after a month and go is there anywhere in my organization? You think you can help me? And ask you know, because a lot of people know that they know deep down in the heart they could help somebody there but they're hired for X and they stay in their lane and they don't venture out, because a lot of bosses don't like people to venture out of their lane. How many times have I said you know, I've been out helping and them streamline and doing something and they're like that ain't what you're hired for. I'm like, not a problem, I'll go back to do what I'm hired for. I'll just zip my mouth. I think I could help you quite a bit, boss. But you know that's fine, I'll stay in my lane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know that's fine, I'll stay in my lane, yeah, and that really says more about the boss than it does about the employee. You know, I've always liked to help people just kind of unleash their talent and give them the flexibility and the freedom to be creative and work with other people and have some synergy going on with some creative ideas and maybe some new ideas and implement things. Sometimes they work fantastic, sometimes they don't, and I say you know what that didn't work. But the whole point was we gave you an opportunity. Let's see what else is going to happen on the horizon.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the last leadership points I'll bring up Excellence leads to influence and if you're excellent and you've proved yourself well, you're going to elevate yourself to a position of great influence. You know, and you do that with that work ethic, your discipline, your decision making, being the stellar person that you are. But I mean it takes time sometimes and some people excel immediately, but you got to be able to harness. If you go up to a position of influence, make sure that you're using your power wisely, right. Just because you have the name tag on doesn't mean that you're the boss of all. I mean there's a lot of people that are the boss of a company and or a team and they are not the true boss on paper, but they're the true boss if you go ask them. You know that's the. You sort of go back to the military crisis. You know planning, you know they're always going to go to the strongest leader in the group and sometimes that isn't that guy wearing the name tag that's calling all the shots.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'll just say one of the lessons I learned, even as a teenager, and that is you have to earn the right to be heard, and so that's through your actions, through your integrity, through your performance. Daniel certainly lived that out with his integrity, with his faithfulness, and then, when he was interpreted in dreams for the king, he really earned the right to be heard. So he just grew in his influence of others, the people around him. And so what are some great lessons from the book of Daniel? Now, we've gone this entire time and not one dad joke. I don't know what the problem is, but oh my gosh, look at your book, you got some dad jokes. Hey, I just wanted to ask you a question have you ever been to the little town of engagement, ohio? I have not been to engage, okay. So if you ever look on a map, it's between Dayton and Marion.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I don't think. Let's see if I have the buttons going.
Speaker 2:I hope not.
Speaker 1:I got the buttons going. Well, they might be, but let me see, hang on. Nope, they don't have. I don't have them going on that side, okay.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you a question. You know Apple, the company Apple. They own a lot of different things, they have a lot of different products, but I don't know if they ever owned a dance stadium or dance studio. You know, if Apple a company Apple owned a dance studio, I wonder what it would be called. My suggestion would be called Macarena.
Speaker 1:Ba-dum-bum-tsh, ba-dum-bum-tsh, ba-dum-tsh. I need to get some. That's it. As soon as we get off this show, I'm going to order me some new dad jokes.
Speaker 2:You're going to order some dad jokes.
Speaker 1:I've got some dad joke books around here, but we've used a lot of them.
Speaker 2:Here's one. What type of luggage do vultures carry on with them in the airplane?
Speaker 1:What kind of luggage do vultures bring with them on an airplane. I don't know. What do they do? What do they bring Carry on? I had one. I actually said— I had one, you had one well, I want to hear it what? Oh my gosh, what was that one? I get them and I save them and I take screenshots of them, but you know, then I travel for 20 days and they're and then you forget yeah, and travel for 20 days and they're and then, and then you forget, uh and uh, yeah. So let's see.
Speaker 2:It was. You know, I I uh someone here, uh at the church. Uh was talking about one of the employees with a bad posture. I have a hunch. It was me.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good. You think so. Huh, I'm almost there. I'm pulling some up. You are, you're pulling them up. I thought about some that it fits into our week.
Speaker 2:Oh, it does.
Speaker 1:Let's see if we can find out some good ones, because we've got time change coming up right.
Speaker 2:We do this weekend is time change. I mean, it's spring forward right Daylight. Samuels time spring forward. Oh, last night I had this dream that I was really the author of the Lord of the Rings series. I guess I've been talking in my sleep. How much does an influencer weigh? How much does an influencer weigh?
Speaker 1:How much does an influencer weigh? How much does an influencer weigh? I'm thinking on this one hard. I'm thinking, okay, I got nothing.
Speaker 2:How about?
Speaker 1:an Instagram. That's pretty good. I have no dad jokes today. I'll work on it. Oh my gosh, you're dry. I just I'm looking at them. I pulled up some on time change. I'm like I'll find some for time change. Yeah, it's no, they're all horrible.
Speaker 2:Here is a good joke. You should have probably heard this in Vegas while you were out there in Vegas for the Builder Show. Okay, so we like to play cards in our house. We like to play canasta garbage canasta. Diana's grandma parents taught me how to play canasta. I just really like that. But our cards, our decks of cards we've had them so long that they're worn out. So I went online and I bought some decks of cards, but it's been two weeks since I've ordered and they haven't shown up, and so I contacted the seller and they said they were dealing with it.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's stop right there.
Speaker 1:Why did the police officer go to the baseball game?
Speaker 2:Because someone stole the bases. There you go, you can call a happy cowboy. Hip along something, what I don't know. Jolly rancher, a jolly rancherer, oh, that's a good one. I wish I had a button. That's all I had. I just that's what you had. Let's just stop there I'll prepare yes, before next week. That sounds good. Well, it's good to see you.
Speaker 1:Always a pleasure to see you hang out with you, talk a little bit about that biblical leadership stuff that we talk about Next week. What do we got next week?
Speaker 2:Next week we're going to do Ezra and Nehemiah Now in the Bible. They're two different books, but originally they were one book, so we're going to do both of them because they were contemporaries. They were in Jerusalem at the same time, with a little background. They lived way after Daniel, so they were not contemporaries with Daniel, they were like later, but they were both very significant in the Jewish people coming back to Jerusalem. After the people were there for a long time, they came back. They had a different role. Each of them had a different role in helping Jerusalem and the people, and so we'll talk about that and the valuable lessons we get from those two books.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome. Well, as always, check us out biblicalleadershipshowcom. Send us some text over there, send us some emails, say hello to us. Let you know that I think we're up to seven listeners now.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we're just exploding.
Speaker 1:All right, we have a few, and you know, especially those ones across the pond. Say hello to us and let us know what the weather is over there in Jolly Hole. So other than that, dr P, take us out and we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 2:All right, make it a great day.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys, bye, bye.
