The Biblical Leadership Show

From Foot Washing To Team Building: How Servant Leadership Multiplies Results

• Tim Lansford and Dr. Dean Posey • Season 4 • Episode 98

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A storm only looks like weather until it hits your team. We explore how one intense night in John 13–17 becomes a field guide for modern leadership under pressure: power that kneels, pruning that strengthens, and unity that endures. We start with the moment Jesus washes feet—a vivid picture of authority expressed through service—and translate it into daily practices leaders can use to build trust and influence. Expect concrete takeaways on modeling behaviors you want multiplied, designing roles that protect focus, and creating space where the best work can ripen.

Then we unpack the vine and branches: why pruning isn’t about loss, but about fruit. If you’ve wrestled with tough staffing calls, unclear responsibilities, or the chaos of “helpful” people working outside their lane, this conversation offers a humane framework. We share practical tools like 90‑day focus plans, boundary setting, and the “right seat” mindset, plus the hard truth that delayed decisions drain cultures. You’ll hear why hiring for attitude outperforms hiring for pedigree, and how “unity with candor” beats nice, vague teamwork every time.

We also address common questions about communion practices and how tradition can be reframed to renew purpose. Whether you fast before receiving or not, the point is remembrance that reshapes behavior—an idea leaders can apply by pairing rituals with reflection across their teams. We close with an invitation to find a church home and a circle that knows you, challenges you, and sends you. Storms will come. Strong roots—servant leadership, clear lanes, honest pruning, and real community—help you stand and bear fruit.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who leads people, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Your feedback helps more leaders find these conversations.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh now, uh huh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

All righty, welcome to another exciting episode of the Biblical Leadership Show.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome, welcome, welcome. What's up, Dr. B?

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, Tim, how you doing today? Ah, doing all right.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my gosh, we're already in November.

SPEAKER_01:

In November. It's crazy. I can't even.

SPEAKER_02:

This year has gone by. I can't even so fast. It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01:

It's crazy. Yes. How fast it's going.

SPEAKER_02:

It is really, yeah. You know, and we're it's still in the hurricane season. And do you know how do hurricanes know where they're going?

SPEAKER_01:

I do not know. They look with their eye. It's been some strong hurricanes here in the last week, right? You know, uh Melissa caused some havoc in there. I mean, it just accelerated quickly. Yeah. So I don't know. It's uh yeah, I can't believe hurricane, but hurricane season goes into November.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and so a couple years ago we were down at Orange Beach, uh-huh. Um, and uh it was Hurricane Sally. It was supposed to go to, I think, New Orleans, and all of a sudden it just decided, nope, I'm not going to New Orleans. I'm gonna hit Orange Beach. And uh we were and uh there at a friend's condo, and man, it I mean, I think it was only like a category one or two. I can't imagine a category three, four, or five. I just can't imagine the the damage. I mean, our car got total, but but we were safe. Um the building we were in, the whole bottom floor, the glass was just destroyed. I mean, shattered. Right. And uh we go out on the beach uh two days later, and the sand dunes were just in a totally different place. I mean, it was crazy the force that a hurricane can have that we don't even comprehend.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's just uh wow.

SPEAKER_01:

I can't yeah, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_02:

So I mean But they do use their eye to know where they're going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Yeah, I I was uh, you know, we were in last month, we were in uh Boston. We ran up to Boston. I had to go up for some work up there, and and there was a nor'easter that came through and and just you know, internal where my client was, it wasn't uh wasn't too bad, right? It was just rainy and everything. But you got up on the coast, we stayed in his beach house, that's where he put us up at. And it it sounded literally like a tornado for 48 hours just because it was coming in so hard on the wind and the waves crashing and everything. It was it was uh really interesting. But I mean that's the thing, it's it just changes just a little one like that changes the dunes, right? Can't imagine these big hurricanes coming in and how they just you know. You've seen the stories where they suck all the water out and people are out walking. I'm like, man, that's scared me, you know, because you know that water's coming back. I don't understand. I'm like, uh no. I'd be walking out real fast with my metal detector and seeing what I could find and then getting back quick. Putting my waders on, I mean my life jacket on and letting it take me back to the boat, you know, take me back to the shore. So anyway, but yeah, it's it's interesting. Going in, I mean, we we don't have but what six weeks to six or something, six weeks to yeah, but you know, we're talking about hurricanes, and uh that leads us right into the discussion we're gonna talk today because there's a big storm coming.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Uh Jesus knows that. He's getting to re uh you know, take uh the devil on, and um obviously he wins, but did you hear that they arrested the day of the the devil? No one. They got him on possession. Anyway, so we're we're um we're gonna start. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_01:

That was a good blending in there. Dr. Segway. That's pretty good about Segway in the end. All right, good job.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, so just to catch everybody, we're we're rolling into uh Chapter 13 in the book of John. Yeah. And really uh what you mentioned, chapter 13 through 17 really is the the Focus on the Last Supper. Focus on the Last Supper, and that's what we're gonna sort of talk about today and and put that in in perspective. And and like I say, this is where you know the there is a big storm coming, right? You know, he has a lot, a lot of changes going on here.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And so one of the things that's important to know about the Last Supper, the story, you know, so the book of John has 21 chapters, five chapters focus on one night of Jesus with his disciples in the upper room. That's how important this particular event is in the whole scheme of the life of Jesus. Um he spends more time on it than other uh gospel writers, um, but it's because of the conversations that he has, not just the communion or the Last Supper ritual of the Passover meal. And so there's some incredible teaching there and uh the prayer, the the priestly prayer that Jesus prays in John chapter 17. Um, but we start out with uh Jesus washing his disciples' feet. And so he's humbling himself. Um he's he's saying, Hey, you know, do this in remembrance of me. Uh I want to give an example for the type of person and servant that I want you to be. Um there's gonna be some challenging times coming, um, and he's trying to tell them that. Um but you still, no matter how difficult it is, you still need to be called to serve. And uh so that's what he was you know attempting to teach them. I think that's um a good leader um wants people to uh duplicate their actions. They they they want to be a role model for their longtime employees, they want to be a role model for their new employees. Um we want to create leaders, right?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, we want to create leaders. You know, and everybody was always worried about oh, if I give them the power and this and I I empower that person to do that, then that takes away from mine. I can end up getting fired. I'm I just I mean, if you're a good leader, you never even think about that. You think about how can I have the best team around me. And uh, you know, I I'm always I always I can't even tell you how many people I've helped can start construction companies and and help them. Or if I don't have jobs that I really want to take on with a client, I'll shoot them over to them. And uh it's just one of those things that uh uh it's just uh from a leadership. I mean, we we always want to empower, we want everybody to be successful.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, and so let's just say, for example, you have a a business, um, and let's just say that you make a product, whatever that widgets, you know, whatever it makes. Blue widgets. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. You you want your accounting person to be the best accounting that they can be. You want your um person that buys your supplies to be the best person they can be. So the question is how do you do that? Um that might not be your uh, you know, expertise, but you you still want someone to be that person. You know, I I didn't have a background in finance, um, but I learned a lot about church finance from you know just doing doing the job for so many years. But I wasn't a CPA. I didn't know all the laws. I knew a lot of them, but I didn't know all of them. So, but I wanted my business manager or my finance person to be the best they could be. Um, and and so the question is how do we do that for each person? And I think what Jesus is saying here is you want a role model servanthood. Um, you know, that we're there to serve the people, uh, we're there to serve our customers, we're there to serve our our fellow workers. How can we best do that? So Jesus is setting example. Um, and it basically he's letting them know um in subtle ways, they find out on Friday that he's he's he's gonna die, you know, he's crucified on the cross, but he's preparing them to step up into the leadership role and to spread the his message of love and forgiveness throughout the world. And so he's thinking, you know, you're gonna have some difficult times coming forward, um, but even in difficult times, you still need to serve. And so what a what a great example um that uh Jesus had, you know, and he did that 2,000 years ago, and it I don't know how long it took to to wash the disciples' feet, but we still remember that story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, 100%. He didn't just tell them, you know, they washed each other's feet. He he did it by example, he showed them, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And so we go from that, then we go on to chapter 14 and 15. And I think we were talking this uh before the show um about chapter 15, where Jesus talks about I am the vine, you are the branches. Right, you know, and and uh, you know, have to decide, do we do we want more vine or do we want fruit? And and that is a really good question that I think business people need to ask themselves, leaders need to ask themselves, do I want um more fruit? Do I want more productivity? Do I want more of this or what? How do I best do that? And and so we were uh talking, Tim and I were talking before the show is like sometimes you have to prune in order to get be more productive. And and sometimes that pruning is uh letting someone go. And we've had to do that, both of us have to do that. It's never easy, even though you you know, even though you know the person and the person knows they're not doing their job to let them go, it it's never been easy for me. Um and uh have that comp difficult conversation. So that's one way of pruning. But another way of pruning, which might be uh used more often, is just in making sure that people stay in their lane, you know. Um you you want to tell that story? I think it's a great story, it's just it's kind of a sad story, but you know, it's a valuable lesson. I think some of our listeners might be uh appreciative of it.

SPEAKER_01:

I have a buddy that you know, he's I I've watched him get fired from probably three jobs, and if he's listening, he knows exactly who he is, because I I've talked to him about it, and he would go in and he's just he he's an entrepreneur, and this this is before he actually developed his own company and he got in business for himself, but he would go to other people's and he always tried to fix all the bad things, right? And uh, you know, the uh constantly the CEO or the boss would be like, We didn't hire you to fix the company, we hired you to do this. You need to focus on this. Ultimately, he would do that for about a week. He'd find something that was broken, he would try to fix it, and he would be fired two weeks later, right? And then uh he'd go to the next company and and he did. And finally, I told him, I said, You just need to get in business for yourself. Because I mean, you have the mindset of looking at the big picture, it's very obvious you're not just this this little scope, and uh ultimately did he's been successful and he's doing really good. But I mean, yeah, he just he he didn't stay in his lane at at all. And uh it it it it it polished up the resume quite a bit, you know, in in those times.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, and so one of the ways uh that a leader can prune um is is in helping people stay in their lane. And there might need to be some you know, blunt conversation about job description, job expectations, there might need to be a performance review written up, you know, those kind of plans or whatever you want to call it, and say this is the thing I want you to focus on for the next 90 days, just this. I don't want you to go outside these boundaries, these are the boundaries. Um, and if you you know successful in this over the next 90 days, then we'll talk about some other things. Um, but I've had employees that you could have that conversation with, and like you said, within a week or two weeks, they're back to it. And and so you have another conversation, um, and they'd be fine for a couple of weeks, and then they're outside their lane, they're telling other people how to do their job, um, they're criticizing them, you know. It's like, uh no, we we just that that person needs to go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And um I said, you know, it's the person that's sitting there with the drill drilling holes in the boat, right? I mean, there's only so many times you're gonna patch the holes and tell him no, right? Right. So, you know, just stop put down a drill and stop drilling holes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and so the question for leaders uh are how are you going to have more fruit, you know? Um just think, for example, um, let's just think you're the coach of a softball team, you know? It's winner leagues coming up, uh, and you just can't you just for some reason there's a couple of players that just don't seem to fit, or maybe they're not playing good or whatever. Maybe it's time to rearrange the lineup. Maybe they're playing it in the wrong position, you know. I I think I can't remember the guy's name right off the top of my head, but you just have to make sure everybody's not just on the bus, but on the right seat on the bus. You know, and sometimes that takes a while being with uh an organization to know, oh, this person was hired to do this, but they really have gifts to do this. And so I'm going to shift their job description and and be able to do that. As a pastor, I had sometimes the ability to shift some job descriptions and really help the church ministry and the congregation because someone had added value that I didn't know when we hired them, and they really accelerated in something. Now they'd still do their job, but we'd have them do something else as well, and and they would shine. And so that's the question. Do you want your employees to do the best they can do with something they love doing, but if that's something they love doing is criticizing others and always finding fault, and uh you've gotta you've gotta take hand matters and address that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I just looked it up. Uh Jim Collins in his good to great 2001. Um, you know, the first step is to get the right people on the bus, the wrong people off the bus, and the right people in the right seats, then figure out where to drive it. And you know, that's one of the things. And it and it says, you know, um, you know, how it ties into leadership, you know, hire for character, train for skill. I I I have that in my email signature. Hire for attitude, train for everything else. Because I think if I have somebody that comes in and has the right attitude, I'll give you the skills. It's just I need somebody I I want to work with, somebody that's willing to work and do the thing. I want that good attitude.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that's one of the things that Jesus was trying to get across during this Last Supper, and and that is that um he wanted to make sure that these disciples stuck together, um, that they were gonna be there was gonna be a difficult road ahead. Um Jesus knew what was coming, that he was going to be crucified, these disciples were gonna be left to spread the message, but uh strength was gonna be sticking together, not going off. Now, eventually, after a while, um they all went off to different parts of the world and did their ministry, but at the beginning, Jesus wanted to be sure that they stuck together, and so that was a real important factor in that. He was encouraging them to be together, you know, and uh he even said, Hey, you know, you you there might be a time when you have to lay down your life for one another, um, and you know, give your whole self to one another. And uh the question is, are you gonna be willing to do that? And and um obviously they said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're willing to do that. And then, you know, twelve hours later they abandon Jesus. But I think over time they realize the value of being together and and you know, relying upon each other's strengths to shore them up. And we see this in the um in the book of books of um Paul in the New Testament, he's talking about encouraging one another. And and so the question would be Jesus was doing that, that's part of the whole Last Supper. It wasn't just about the bread and the wine. Uh it was Jesus was encouraging them as much as he could. He knew he only had a couple hours to do this before he was going to be arrested. And um, and he was encouraging the his disciples to stick together and um follow his example of being a good servant. So um anyway, so those are those five chapters. Um the if you haven't read John chapter 17 uh lately, I encourage you to read it. It's called the Great Priestly Prayer of Jesus, and he's just praying for um the his followers, and so if you're not in the habit of doing that, I encourage you to pray for your your wisdom, pray for business, um, pray for your followers. Um I I just think it's a valuable uh thing to a habit to get into uh and pay benefits in the long run.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Um on the uh the last supper, let's talk about this. Yeah, sure. Um and this has always had a question. I I have uh I have like a I have a leadership here that I can just ask questions to, right? No problem. Uh in communion, uh-huh, a lot of times they say fast until you go to the church to take communion. Have you is that is that a certain religion or is it sort of what that? Because I, in turn, I always wanted to ask that question because I've heard that many times, fast up until you take communion and then do this in remembrance to me. But in theory, Jesus did communion there after the Last Supper. So they had to meet. So it seemed like it was mixed feelings there. So I didn't know it. I didn't know I've always wanted to ask that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it's a tradition that some people adhere to have for many, many years. Um tradition that I grew up in, the Methodist Church, they they did not observe that. You're right, the Last Supper, Jesus took a meal that had been going on for centuries and gave it a new meaning. Um and and so um, you know, here is uh another leadership principle. It's like you take something that the company's been doing for a long time and you tweak it to make it even more valuable and have a new meaning. And so, but um, but there are some that say, okay, on the morning, well, like Catholics, you can go to Mass every day if you want to, right? Or you can go once a week or you can go Saturday night, Sunday night, whatever. Um, and and uh they have a long-standing tradition of doing that for centuries and centuries of having mass every day for other denominations. Um, they don't call it the Mass, they might call it the Eucharist or Holy Communion or the Lord's Supper or uh whatever name, but the principle is the same, and that is you're you're remembering the sacrifice that Jesus did on the cross, uh, that we'll talk about next week. And and uh and then you know you're thinking about okay, so Jesus did this for me. Um what am I gonna do to live out that uh example that he has? Um am I gonna follow it? Am I gonna not? Um I I found forgiveness in that. Um and and so how am I gonna live now that I've received this grace and forgiveness that comes from God? So so uh going back to your question, um I would say not there are very few um uh in the whole uh denominational world um that would say, okay, the m the day you're gonna have you're gonna go and get the mass or communion, that don't eat until you get that and then fine. But the vast majority of them don't do that. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd heard that before. I just I I hadn't really, you know, because I grew up Methodist as well, so it's I've heard that, you know, through you can't eat, it's it's it's well it's communion.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, I think that's if people want to do, okay. You know, I I don't choose to live that that way. Right. You know, there have been times I've fasted, but it's not like okay, I'm I'm gonna fast, and then but the the weeks we have communion or the days we have communion, I'm gonna take that. Um, but it's not but I I don't do what you just said. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well that goes at my my wife grew up Catholic, so you know where I probably heard it from, right? You know, and but I just I I had never heard that, so I was like, oh, I'm gonna ask Posey to see see what his thoughts are on this because I'd say if people want to do that, you know, that's their prerogative.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. I don't think it's a requirement, I don't think it's necessary. Right. But if you feel no, I want to I want to fast, whatever that means, until I take uh the the mass or go to the mass or take holy communion, okay. I did my doctorate dissertation on holy communion because I just think it's I even as a young uh child, you know, growing up in the Methodist church in Albuquerque, um, I was always fascinated if I could help, if I was an acolyte helping serve communion on those Sundays that we were doing it. And and so that's always been a a fascinating thing for me and an honor to serve. Um, and I still feel that way. And so um, yeah, I think it's a fantastic uh thing that the church does. Um and uh if it's if you're a listener and you haven't uh been to church for a while, I encourage you to go. Um and um if the Holy Communion is something that was important for you when you're growing up, I I encourage you to find a church that celebrates that. Uh different denominations celebrate at different frequencies. Um obviously the Catholic Church celebrates it every day. Uh other churches do like every Sunday, they might have it in one of their services. Some do it once a month, some do it once a quarter. So if that's important to you, find out and and um go participate. I think you'll be blessed by doing that.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, yeah, 100%. I I I think everybody needs to find a good church. And and and if you don't feel then maybe, you know, if you don't feel like this is the place, keep looking, you know. Yeah, keep looking. I I know so many people that you know uh I I we we just found a great church, right? But we bounced around um after my my my good Mr. Posey here retired. I I started bouncing and we bounced around probably five different churches, but I think we found our home now and everything just sort of locked in and and uh it's good. So it's it's just one of those things that don't do it just because, right? You know, and uh find that church and it really make a world of difference.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think it will. I think it will. And the thing about it is you can't just go one Sunday um and and make a decision. That's exactly right. You know, you've you've got to go for a good month to say, is this gonna be something not where I can just sit and listen, but is this the church I want to be involved with? You know, I do I want to get to know the people, I want to get to know uh the pastor, I want to volunteer my time, um, I want to support them financially. Um, I want to, you know, be involved in, you know, this group of people. Do is that is this group of people the one that I want to be involved with? And um sometimes you can find it immediately, sometimes it takes a while, but don't give up. If you need some help uh finding a church, uh just contact us at biblical leadershipshow.com. We'll do everything we can to help you narrow that search and give you some suggestions uh in your area. Um and if it's out of state, um, which some of our listeners are, we'll do everything we can. I've got a network that I can work with to find a church for you.

SPEAKER_01:

And uh we have some international listeners. Can we do international? I don't know. And and so, yeah, uh we'll help you.

SPEAKER_02:

We'll help you. Yeah. All right. So, you know, we uh got back from our trip uh about a week and a half ago, almost two weeks ago now. Um and one of the things that I enjoyed doing while um we were gone was we were um playing cards. I learned some new card games. Um, but one of the things that we did was um it was kind of unusual. Uh I was playing poker. Um, and I was playing poker against a cardboard cutout. And you know what happened? They folded.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I was trying to really think on that one. I'm like, oh, this is up my alley here. What we can figure out this one. Oh, what a oh that's great.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Um, so you got any you got any dad jokes there in your in your repertoire?

SPEAKER_01:

I I was just uh looking through and seeing what I could find.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, while you're looking, what do you call a monster a mobster buried in cement? What do you call a mobster buried in cement?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, I don't want to say his name, but how about a hardened criminal? Nice. What was the guy that they uh Yeah, I don't know. I forget his name. The the guy that's where they say he's under the stadium up there, but when they were demoing the stadium, they couldn't find any the any remnants of him. So they think it was just myth and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah. Well, you got any jokes for us before we sign off the air?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh man, I got no, I just no. I I have to I have uh I no, no, I can get them, but they're over there on my my over on the chair over there.

SPEAKER_02:

So So we were one of the things that we did on our trip, we went to visit our daughter who lives in the eastern part of the United States, and and we were talking and she wanted to go shopping. I said, Okay, um, I'll go shopping, but I need to teach you something. And uh and she said, What do you need? I said, I need to teach you what a bargain means. And after we shopped, she said, Thanks, Dad, that means a great deal to me.

SPEAKER_01:

I like it. Yeah, I just found some here. Let's see.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, so so one of the things that we did with uh our our daughter's uh boyfriend is we binge watched The Hobbit and uh the uh the the trilogy. I mean, we watched so many hours of just as he and I were just watching, it was absolutely great. Um and uh then we were gonna watch this uh other movie. I'm trying to remember what the name of it was, but it's a Laura Croft movie. Um I don't I don't remember the title of it. Tomb Raider.

SPEAKER_01:

Tomb Raider.

SPEAKER_02:

Tomb Raider. Okay, but you know, um but why was Laura Croft sad? You know why Laura Croft was sad? No, I do not because her career was in the ruins.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh I was on the train to work, and the conductor told me I had to change had to charge me extra for telling dad jokes. I told him that's not fair.

SPEAKER_02:

That's not fair. Oh, did you hear the story about the tornado?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh boy. No.

SPEAKER_02:

There's a real twist at the end.

SPEAKER_01:

I was going with the word spinning. I couldn't figure it out. All right, one more, and we'll let the people go. I I'll have to get better. I was I was being lazy on this show. I was like, I suppose he's got like 500,000 dad jokes here.

SPEAKER_02:

Um but so why does water never laugh at dad jokes?

SPEAKER_01:

Why is water never laughed at dad jokes? Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Because it isn't a fan of dry humor.

SPEAKER_01:

That's pretty good. I'll give you that one. I don't know. Some of them hit me right. So all right, guys. Check us out biblical leadership show.com and uh send us some dad jokes, send me some dad jokes. Posey's got like he's got like 500,000 dad jokes over there.

SPEAKER_02:

We only have a hundred thousand.

SPEAKER_01:

I need the dad jokes. Email me your dad jokes, you know, uh, and uh text me your dad jokes there on the show prep. Anyway, uh have a great day. Um let us know if we need anything. Uh we'll still put the offer out for finding you a church home or giving you advice, Dr. E's been in this business for uh the people business for For a long time. So he has a lot of knowledge there to help you make and ask the right questions. So anyway, Dr. P takes us out. Hey, make it a great day. Alright, thank you guys.

Head Shot

Dr. Dean Posey

Host
Head Shot

Tim Lansford

Host