Titus And The Hard Work Of Fixing Leadership

Culture doesn’t collapse overnight. It erodes one compromised choice at a time, one “we’ll deal with it later” leader at a time. That’s why we keep coming back to the Book of Titus, where Paul sends Titus into Crete to do the hard work of fixing leadership and finishing what was left undone.

We talk through what makes Titus so practical for biblical leadership and Christian leadership today: choosing leaders based on character over charisma, protecting a healthy culture before it turns toxic, and remembering that what we believe should shape how we live. We also connect church leadership to the real-world challenges of leading a business or team, where change takes courage, patience, and wisdom about people.

Our guest Chuck joins us with coaching insight from decades of building athletes and teams. We dig into knowing what makes each person tick, why “thank you” can outwork money as a motivator, and how tools like the Five Love Languages can help leaders communicate value in a way people actually receive. We close with a gut-check from Titus 3: does our leadership only help people know more, or does it help them live better?

Subscribe, share this with a leader who cares about integrity, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Tempo: 120.0

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh now yeah, come on. All righty, welcome everybody. Welcome, welcome, welcome. To another exciting episode of the Biblical Leadership Show. My name is Tim Lansford, and with me is the famous, infamous, not Dr. Dean Posey. Hey, Tim, how are you doing? Wonderful. Wonderful. And you brought a shadow with you today.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

I don't know if it's a shadow. It's like I'm his shadow. I brought someone I just met a couple of months ago, start of the year, when I started taking uh swimming lessons. And uh this is uh Chuck. And he's the person you've been talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

If he goes back and listens to all these episodes, you'd be like, What? And I I told him straight up because we had time, he got here a little bit before Dr. P this morning, and I said, Hey, you know, he comes in here doing cartwheels every day. Apparently, you're not working him out hard enough, and you need to be a little bit harder on it. Today was a challenge. Well, talk to uh tell us a little bit about our special guest in studio with us today.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

Well, Chuck, uh I just tell you, he's an awesome person and uh great swim coach. Um starting to embarrass me. And uh he's uh you know, lives here in uh the Fort Worth, Dallas area, and uh played some uh baseball and is swimming for a long time and has been a coach for a long, long time. And uh just uh I could never tell him people my age is and a good lover, lover of life, right? You know, I got to know him and and uh he enjoyed his things. So I just I just asked him a couple weeks ago if he would be open to being here uh on this particular day. He said yes, and so he said, okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Well I'm just very appreciative that Tim, you and Dean let me come in here, and I certainly hope I do your your podcast worthy.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Well, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun. We'll have fun today, I promise. We'll we'll have a great time. So, you know, what are we talking about, Doctor?

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Well, we're gonna do some dad jokes to start off.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Just because it's just because it's our own.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

We probably have about 2,000 dad jokes, but I've got one right here. What do you call a pen when it stops rolling? A pen when it stops rolling. Oh you call it stationary.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Oh, nice. Nice. Oh let me get my my thing keyed up there. All right.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Let me ask you a question. Uh, you know, have you ever told you that I used to be addicted to soap? Addicted to soap. Yeah, I worked myself up to a lather, but but I'm but I'm clean now.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

All right, I'll give you a little on that one, right? So um yeah. What else you got? What else? Huh? He's the dad joke king. So I I usually I I have five books. I finally brought all my books in. We cleaned up some stuff, and I knew I had a lot of dad joke books. I found five books. So I'm I'm I haven't had a chance to go through and bookmarking.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

I'll just keep going until y'all are ready.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

And so here's a book there, you know. Listen if you can find a dad joke you like. So he's got something.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Oh, he's so yeah. So um this is the time that my wife and I enjoy working outside. Uh we don't have like a vegetable garden. We tried one one time, but um, you know, the we have flowers uh all around the house and we enjoy that. Uh my wife loves flowers. Yes. And um, but here's a question. I mean, here's the thing that I really learned about a vegetable garden.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

Now, my father-in-law had an amazing vegetable garden. I mean, that thing was like a quarter an acre, and it was a ma it was just awesome. But when you're working in the vegetable garden, you need to be sure you do not tell secrets because potatoes have eyes, corn has ears, and the beans stalk.

unknown 4:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

So we should what we should do on that one. Should we give you that one?

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Okay, here's one more thing. I'm just gonna give I'm just gonna setting y'all setting us the tone. You know, the earth is 70% water.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Okay, and that water is uncarbonated. So in reality, the earth is flat.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

You know, I actually sort of like that one. I like that one. That was pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

I thought the other day I went into a department store and shopping around for a little while, and a blind guy walks in with his seeing eye dog and walks to the middle of the department store and picks up the dog, his dog, and starts zinging it around his head. And a clerk comes running over and says, Can I help you? Can I help you? And says, No, I'm just looking around.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

All right, I'll give you I'll give you one more and then we'll get back talking a little bit about what we're gonna talk about today. Okay. Um, you know, you're you're yeah, yeah. I should have one. I've got one, you know, you're never stopped. You're a big bird like bird lover, right? You like birds, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah, I do like birds. My wife, she has this app on her phone called Merlin.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

And and you can just open up the app and and it'll listen to the birds. Oh, really? And it will tell you the species of bird that you have in your yard. Yes, it's I've been looking for that app. I want that app.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So I've got the plant one in the tree you can point and pick, take pictures of and stuff. But Merlin often uh so uh how do you catch a unique bird? Okay, unique bird. I don't know. No, you unique up on it. I need to press that button. That was on that.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

And today we're talking about the book of Titus. Titus. I want to hear more about this. It's a small book, but very, very powerful. Great uh lessons on leadership. We'll get to in just a minute. But I was um I recently saw a guy who was running around with paper towels on his head. He told me he had a bounty on his head.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay, Tim, you can see why you don't have to worry about anybody hearing anything to embarrass you on this because we just lost our two listeners. They just logged off. They're like too many dad jokes, opening up. I'm out.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

So I don't know if this is a dad joke or not, but Tim, I love your name. I've always loved your name, Tim. My last name is Burr, and I wanted forever to name my kid Tim. I thought that'd be the best dad joke in the world. Maybe date in school, Tim Burr would be great. My wife would have none of that whatsoever. Timber.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

The person that had the Lear Jets, his daughter was named Shanda and uh Shanda Lear. So that was really her name. And then King, King Lear. Yeah, that's uh that's the true story. Yeah, so Timber would have worked, and would have worked. So let's talk Titus and tell us what Titus give us give us an overview on Titus here.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Titus is um a short book that Paul wrote. Um and uh let me just give a little back uh background on who Titus was. He was a Greek Christian. Okay. And um and so he was a a trusted coworker of Paul's. Um and and and Titus was uh uh sent uh to uh Crete and um he was uh in charge of let's just say helping the Christians um have better leadership in their churches in that area. Um and for some reasons the uh Cretans uh actually in the Greek Cretso means to be a liar or to be like a Cretan. And so they had that reputation of being very dishonest, very corrupt. And so um so Paul sends Titus to Crete and his job was to go to all the churches in there and the challenge was to change the leadership of the churches so they could be more Christ-like instead of unchrist-like. And that I I that would be a real challenge, you know, um to have that as your mission in life, um to uh engage in a pretty authoritarian way the people that were not it's not that they were not leading correctly, they were not living correctly.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, so he's trying to really embody this into the church to make it's not just words, it's live the life that you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

It's not just spoken. You've got to walk your talk, you know, you've got to do that. And these people might have sounded good, but their walk, their lifestyle, uh, and sometimes their language and their act was just not Christ-like at all. So, so Paul said, Hey, Titus, I need you to go to Crete, I need you to, you know, build relationships, but I need you to change the leadership of the churches. And uh I'm thinking, wow, what a challenging mission that is. So just think about you, okay? You're you're head of a company, uh, maybe you're just brand new, you you just got hired. Um you know that there's some issues with the organization. It could be uh 20 people, it could be 500 people. Um, but you know from the reason there's a you got hired because the old CEO just left because you couldn't take it anymore. So you had to go in there, you had to learn the the situation. You can't just go in and one day just start firing people. You gotta learn the situation, and then you've got to make some difficult decisions because if you don't, then you're gonna be living with that. And sometimes it's just challenging. Some people can't do it, they can't confront somebody and uh you know have them either step away or change because they don't want to change, you know. And and so, but Titus uh that was his mission, and uh he took it on head on, didn't back down from it. Obviously, you can just imagine that there were some challenges he faced. And Paul's Paul was such an encourager, you know, and and I I appreciate uh coach here for being that way with me in the pool because he um he just always encouraging me and and uh just trying to make me better. And and I can tell slowly I'm getting that way, but but uh I can't imagine. Thank you, Coach.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Um I I've tried and it I I have I've had no influence in getting better at all. So I thank you too. So yeah, and I've tried, I've tried a lot.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

So so this letter to Titus is a typical Pauline encouragement, but um he was also not just encouraging Titus, he was encouraged as as a develop, you know, make sure that you stay with the character, but also to uh uh step into that and the leadership of the church. You know, the Bible does say uh bad company ruins Gordon morals. And and so the Paul was aware, aware, well aware that if he goes into this, Titus, if he didn't have that strong character, that strong grounding, that he could just succumb to the influences of the people around him and the circumstances and everything, and just kind of give up and say, Oh, whatever, I can't change this. But Paul was encouraging, no, stay the course, you know. Um and and and just keep at it slowly but surely, and you'll get there. So that was kind of the overarching theme of that. Um and I'm sure that leaders that listen to us have faced that issue. If you have it, you're going to. Um and I'm sure all of us in this room have faced that issue. And it's not easy to confront somebody who's not like just say living, living, like, okay, so they might not be Christian, but what about the mission? Are they living out the mission of the organization? You know, or are they not? Are they just showing up to work? Um this is funny. Our daughter was here over the weekend um from DC, and um and uh so we were joking, uh just joking a couple weeks ago, and I said, Oh, do you have some people at your work that are just like allergic to work? And um she just started laughing. So I while before she got here, I had a shirt made for her, and it says, Are you allergic to work? question mark. And uh so it's like some people are just allergic to work.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

You know, and uh it's hard to motivate that um in an organization. Anyway, that's the covert thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Isn't a lot of that knowing the person you're dealing with? Like you said, you have a company of 20 people or a company of 500 people, you need to know how each person reacts. Let me get to that in just a second. I I'm not a big proponent of a lot of tattoos on anybody, but I've got a couple tattoos scriptures on on my leg. Uh one was Philippians 4.13, I I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. But more than that, I have the one below that for Titus, Titus 3.5, and how I interpret that passage. God loves us not because of who we are, but because of who he is. But you need to know who you are dealing with whenever you are coaching, running a business, or just in society. Uh Jimmy Johnson once said, the former uh Dallas Cowboys coach that he said he never coached two players exactly the same. You gotta know exactly what makes each person tick. Uh I always try to do this with my company. I own a swimming pool company for uh for 48 years. I need to have a lot of employees through that time, and I need to find out what makes one person do one thing or one person do something else. And um my wife told me a while ago about the five love languages, and this is what deals with it. And I'm not I don't know if I really believe all that completely, but uh the five love languages, I've got them written down here physical touch, words of affirmation, uh acts of service, uh, receiving gifts, and quality time. And if someone really responds with quality time and you're trying to teach them and motivate them with words of affirmation, that may not make make them work. Find out what your employee or athlete or whoever you of your friends are, what makes them work. Tim, what is your favorite word to hear in the English language?

SPEAKER_00 15:42

My favorite word. Your favorite word?

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Wow, that's yes. This is part of the my my feeling in making someone feel strong. What makes you what's a favorite word that you had in your song? And I know what it is, and you're gonna say maybe so.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Maybe so. Um my favorite word.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

I don't want to put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

No, but I mean I can think of I just said it.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

I I just said it a second ago.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Physical words. No X. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

There you go. Dean, that's exactly right. Everybody likes to hear their name. And once I say Tim, you're gonna pick perk up and listen to what the person that and eye contact. I did that all with all my employees, call their name out if I ever ask them to do anything, and they felt more of a relationship that way. And I do the same thing. Dean, you may notice it when you're in the water, and I'm coaching you that oftentimes I'll say something to you, and instead of just saying it to you, I'll say, Dean, this.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Yeah, but sometimes I don't hear because my head's underwater and I'm struggling to come back up.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah, like me, I'm sinking, right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

But I have used those five languages. I read that book years ago. I used it in marital counseling, premarital counseling. And so sometimes, like if my love language is words of affirmation, okay? I'm not saying it is, but I was just if it is. And my spouse's love language is giving gifts, but she gives me gifts for that. She's she's she is um uh trying to affirm me with her love language instead of mine. So you have to learn the other person's love language so that you can you can talk to them in that language instead of your and a lot of people have a real child, uh I've done a lot of marriage counseling, and a lot of people have a hard time grasping that concept. Um, but when they do, it just totally changes the relationship. It just totally turns it around. So um it's something to work on, but it's so effective. So those of you who are listening, those two people that are listening to one, right? Okay, we have a lot of dad zones up front. Five lug languages, I encourage you to pick it up and read. It's a classic, it's been around for decades, but it is so effective, not just in marriage, but in leadership. It really, really is so great, great reference.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

One thing that some employees think and some employers think is that a love language is money. And can I money whip my employees? Can I money, can I more money I give them, will I get better work out of the out of them? And that's not the case at all. It does not work at all. Most important thing we all know that the most important things in life are not things. Right. And it takes you a while to learn that. Took me a quite a while to learn that. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

So yeah, and that's one of those things, you know, the biggest motivator of people is simple thank you and good job. You know, it's one of those things. Yeah. And you know, that's one of the things I I learned from a guy, uh, he was a speaker, and he and it it really it's something I knew, but I really hadn't put it in place. He goes, I don't buy gifts for people anymore. I buy experiences. So, like his grandma, he doesn't buy gifts, he buys a trip, he buys for his kids. He doesn't buy uh you know a blue widget, he buys a trip to this or experience. Let's go to the theme park or whatever it is. And he goes, Those are memories that are gonna be kept in your database, and and that's what you remember. You're not gonna remember that blue teddy bear that you had. You might if it's really special, but more than likely you're gonna remember the experiences you had.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

So let me ask uh just I gotta throw in a dad joke here.

unknown 19:26

What happened?

SPEAKER_04 19:28

What happens?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

He is on a dad joke thing.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

Okay, so so what happens after two spiders get engaged?

SPEAKER_00 19:37

They uh they have a webbing. Oh I was thinking somehow.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

For you single guys out there. Single guys out there, how do you get a farm girl to like you lost with a tractor?

SPEAKER_03 19:59

I don't know on that one. Dean, where do you keep where do you keep all your dad jokes?

SPEAKER_04 20:06

In my phone.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

I just have a thing. I copy, uh I get them off the internet, I copy them and paste them to a folder on my phone.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

You keep them at a different place than I do. I keep them at home in my dad base.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Okay, that's good. Nice. He may put it there. So let's let's get into uh Titus a little bit. Exactly right. So in in Titus one, um, what's the overall where we're we're what what uh Paul's trying to do here? Is that where he's talking about, you know, live the life? Does he go really heavy on that in Titus I?

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Well normal Paul's outline of a letter, okay, he always not always, but I'll say most of the time, he lays a theological foundation for um his faith in Christ. Uh he's encouraging. Um and and so with this, you know, Titus is a very short letter, so he has to get to it pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

And there's only three letters in Titus. Three chapters in the show. Three chapters, three chapters in the letter.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

So it's like it's a short letter, but it's very powerful. And so he is basically um starting to give Titus some instructions, and um so it's just like he just has to roll really fast. In other letters, he goes on for like a half a chapter or I mean a whole uh chapter. I mean, yeah, uh as far as um just laying a theological foundation for Christ, and and then he goes on to his content. Well, here he doesn't have he's not writing that long, and so he is moving pretty quick into that to begin giving Titus the instructions on what he's supposed to do. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yeah, so he's he's really putting in the fact that you know it it it's it's not only just about the vision, and then we can tie that into companies. Not about the vision. It's it's about to bring that ability to order to actually do things to accomplish some of the goals and to uh align align the employees with the vision of the company. Is that sort of the thought process there?

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Yeah, and so it seems to me that if you read between the lines, that when Titus uh was uh you know asked to go to uh Crete, that Paul was part of the issue was some of the work there was left unfinished. And and so Titus was there not to to short up, to to change out the leadership, and to finish the work that was started. Um and and that would have been a tough job, okay. But Titus was well aware, you know, some some leaders are willing to take on tough roles, others are not. Um and so we have a perfect example of that right here in this small book of Titus.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Yeah. So um and and so one of the things that I think is is pretty profound in this is okay, say for example, um you're you are in a company, you're you know, vice president or one of your managers or whatever uh supervisors retires or gets a job with another company. How do you replace that with a good quality person?

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

And so Paul is encouraging Titus to confront the leaders of the church that are not doing the proper job, and he outlines some qualifications for new leadership. And and I think and he starts that pretty quick in in chapter one.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

So yeah, but he doesn't say go find the most dynamic speaker in the town, right? And he says, this is what we need to do, this is what we need to find, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:57

So so in Paul, it seems like this, and he's pretty consistent. Character always is more important than content. I mean, character is like the foundation. Obviously, the faith is foundation, but then character is like second. You you've got to have a good strong character. You have to be able to trust somebody who's gonna be honest with you, even though it might be difficult to hear. You want someone who's committed to the mission and not just committed to you, uh committed to the organization, understands relationships uh and how important those are, like uh Chuck was just saying a while ago, know how to manage or coach, um direct the people under you.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Um Dean, you can uh you can't teach character, you can teach tasks. Right. But it's a lot of it has to do with their responsibility, how they are grown up, what type of person they are. That's the character you're talking about. It has to have someone that has some character, and then you can teach them anything they want to.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Exactly right. So I had to learn that the hard way, you know, character over charisma. Right. Um and and and so sometimes you need someone with a lot of charisma, if you're a salesperson or something like that, not to fake out the you know your clients, yeah, but to be very energetic. Um and but then you need somebody who's got that strong character base that can just really be solid, you can count on them, uh, you know that they're committed, um, and you're committed to them. And and so that's what Paul is saying. Hey, you need to really look for character over charisma because um it's just gonna it's gonna stabilize the thing of the churches, and it's gonna set up leadership for the generations. Right. You know, like if you have a charisma, a person with great charisma, okay, sometimes that's really good. But what happens when that person's no longer there? You haven't set a foundation of character building and stability to carry on to the next, you know, to hand it off to the next generation. And so Paul's thinking not just now, he's thinking of generations in the future to set that those churches up for success.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

And that that's a lot has that has to come to do with how you know that person and finding out from that person. It reminds me of James 119, where it says, slow to speak, slow to anger, and quick to listen. You've got to let the individual come out and realize what they're all about. Reminds me of a joke. Uh really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

Oh my god, do we do jokes on this podcast?

SPEAKER_03 26:38

That's the craziest thing, right? John Johnny, little Johnny comes home from school and asks his mom, Mom, where did I come from? And mom, oh my gosh, I've got to have that birds and the bees conversation with him. So she explains everything about biology and everything, and finally she gets finished. And Johnny says, Oh, okay. Billy told him he came from St. Louis. Oh, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

But you gotta know, you gotta know the end. Don't say too much, don't don't be too eager to jump in.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Let them talk. I'm all about asking open-ended questions. That's what I teach a lot of people. If you want to be a really good leader, ask open-ended questions and listen. 85-90% of the time, you'll be one of the best leaders in the world. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

So here's let's uh before we move on to the next part of the book of Titus, um, wrong leaders uh don't just make bad decisions. Right. Okay. They shape unhealthy cultures.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

You want to have a healthy culture, uh, you don't want that unhealth to germinate because it affects so many people. And and is once that starts, it is hard to steer that ship. I mean, you can be done, but sometimes it just takes a long time to do it. Yeah, one of the things that's Paul is saying, hey, let's just get the right people in there, set it up for success.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Yeah, I mean, the leader makes you know a lot. I mean, we always talk about the leader is the one that steers the ship, but you know, it can be chaotic on the ship if you got that instability and that that something going on that's gonna create that cultural shift where one person, two people, you know, you you mentioned Jimmy Johnson. I I just told a story. I was at a conference up in Rhode Island last week, and and I told him a story of Jimmy Johnson, you know, when he came in. And he's coming from the Landry days, and he came in, and oh, nobody wanted this guy from Miami and all this stuff. You're not my coach and all this stuff. And he said, Well, I'm gonna start bringing in people. He started bringing in his own players, right? And everything, and either get on, and a few people got on, a couple people didn't get off. Next thing you know, he started giving the pink slips like bye bye, you know, you need to leave, bye-bye, and bye-bye. And then people are like, Oh, okay, well, maybe I'm I'm all about Jimmy Johnson's. And then a couple people are like, Nope, I'm not getting on. And then they left the door, and he brought in a couple more, and lo and behold, after you know, a good year, then everybody was on to Jimmy Johnson's. He's my coach, right? Yeah, and that's one of those things, you know. He could have came in and and you could have had that that instability, but it takes that good leader to really firm up and and make everybody unite and and go for that that central vision.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

So lead lead follower, get out of the way.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

And here's the a big difference um that some people get and some people don't. Huge difference between a company that you're the owner, the CEO of whatever, and you can basically fire people if you need to. You can't always do that in a church, okay? Um, because if you're a new pastor of a church, you've been there maybe a year or two, and you have some people that are just not doing the job that needs to be done, um, well, those other people have probably been there longer than you, and they've built up friends in the church, they've built up relationships. And so you can't just go in and fire them. I mean, you could, but the backlash of that sometimes is a lot more damage. So you've got to be able to work with that person um in a in a in a very constructive, encouraging way. And sometimes it just takes time for the steer that ship. And sometimes it just doesn't happen. You know, I've tried that with some people and it's worked great, and other people, you try it for six months to a year and it just doesn't happen. You go to your personnel committee, you explain the situation, you keep them up to date the whole time. And sometimes you just have to let them go because they're not willing to get on board. Their attitude is horrible, they create just a horrible culture, and you just don't want that permeating with your people. You just don't.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Dean, you're exactly right, but that time is difficult. It is difficult. You've got to give the time, and sometimes you want to make immediate changes and you see what needs to be done, it's not getting done. But if you want to make the change too quickly and not giving the individual enough time, it's it's a disaster waiting to happen. It is. It is so well said, coach.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

So well said. So um, but leaders, you've got to protect the culture. You don't not just there to motivate your people, you're there to not just protect the culture, but perpetuate a good culture and a good environment. And that's part of the leadership, a good leader.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

So 100%.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

So um Titus 2 shifts into uh you know the categories of of older men, older women, younger women, younger men. What what where where's where's Paul going with uh his thoughts on this? Any ideas?

SPEAKER_04 31:33

Well, first of all, his foundation is that the what you believe basically dictates how you live. Okay. Okay, right. And and if you're living a life, you say you believe one thing, but you're not living it, you don't really believe it.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

So his thing was, hey, if you believe this, then let's live it. And and that doesn't matter your age, gender, what your background doesn't matter. If you believe in Christ as a Christ follower, this is what he said, this is how you should be living. Right. And and so he goes to Crete where these people had a horrible reputation, and uh he tries to steer that ship. It takes it takes a while to do that. And some people are willing to do it, and some people won't. So they weren't willing. And so Paul, Paul was encouraging Timothy, hey, you gotta you gotta get new leaders, you know, you've just gotta get new people. And the people that you get might be older, but their job is also to train the next generation of leaders. Um, I think a a good leader is always thinking about who, not just what's next, who's next, you know, who's gonna take over this, what's gonna happen when? Um and uh so many people don't think about a succession plan, and it really is a downfall. We've seen that in corporate worlds so many times that they don't have a succession plan, the leader leaves, and the company just falls apart within a couple of years because they haven't thought it through. And so that happens in churches too, and it's just sad when it happens because you have a great organization, but they haven't taken a major role in thinking about the succession plan.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Yeah. I had Mike's swimming pool company for 48 years, and we always had a one-year plan, a five-year plan, and a 10-year plan. And you can always have to keep in mind what's going to happen in a year and at the same time what's gonna happen in 10 years from now and see how the market is changing and adjust your employees the same way.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

You know, one of the things I I'll talk to coach here is is we were sort of talking a little bit before, you know, on just the coaching side of the business and everything. And and I guess that sort of ties into what you know Paul's trying to say. If if you're if you want to be that leader, you've you know, theology has to sort of run your all aspects of your life. It certainly does. And then I take this to the coaching level. You know, if you want to be an Olympic swimmer, you can't go out and be partying every night and eating a bag of Cheetos right before you go swim and all that. So it it has to dictate throughout your life to go, you want to step up and you want to get to this level. There's certain things you have to do, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Told my swimmers and my baseball players when I coach in both sports different times that if you want to be just as good as your competition, do the same thing that they're doing. But if you want to be better than them, do more than them. Yeah and always have that in mind.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, that's why I tell my son all the time. I mean, just I don't have to tell you, just go back and watch the statistics. Look at how many Michael Jordan free throws he did after practice, look at all these things, the people that are great, and then see how they're doing, see what Stephen Curry's doing every day as far as shooting, you're gonna find that they have done something more than the other person to get better.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

So here in chapter two, Paul is basically uh talking about leadership and um it's not option modeling good behavior, good character is not just a part of being a leader. It is the it is the being a leader. I mean, it's not just like, oh, I'll do this when I'm in the office. I you know, I'll when I get home, I'll just do whatever when I get out of my car, do whatever I want. No, you gotta live it 24-7.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

It can't be an acting job.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

No, it cannot. People will see through that and immediately.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah. And and I I've referenced, I think I've told the story here one time as one of my speaker friends was traveling and he was sitting up in first class, and and the stewardess, he was going to a vent to speak, and uh hit a little thing, and she spilt coffee all down the front of his shirt. And he took a deep breath. He goes, That's fine, it's not a problem. He handled himself well, and he says, It's fine, accidents happen, and and uh he didn't think anything of it. Well, he gets to the event and uh the CEO comes on the stage. She goes, I just want to commend you the way you handled that. He goes, What are you talking about? He goes, I was actually in the seat right behind you when she spoke coffee on you. So if he would have reacted like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, he would have seen that and he commended him. So you're always on, you know, and and you have to live the leadership lifestyle if you want to step up, right? You got to assume you're always on stage. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Yes. Good point. That's good, very good. Very good point. Um, and and so let's just uh kind of close this around, you know, close this up uh as far as Titus.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

And um well, let's go to three because I want to know um you know, on Titus three, uh tell us Titus three, you're you're three five, right? And and tell us what drew you to that, you know, because you know it it takes a lot to uh put a tattoo on the body. So I mean we have I mean it's there forever. I actually love tattoos, but I I've I haven't found anything I'm that committed to that I want to put on my kids, and I'm like, well, that's that's sort of there, but but I'm like one of those things. It it takes a lot, and I would love to get one. I'm just not committed. So that means you're very committed to this, and I want to know this backstory behind this as well.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

If you're an athlete at an elite level, yeah, to so many people you appear cocky because you've got to believe that you really are the best, and that gosh, that's strong if that really comes out in your personality. But then you've got to realize that it's all God driven. Yeah. And that's where it comes from. God loves us not because of who we are, but because of who he is. And he put all of us in that position. He know he yeah, God never makes mistakes. Yeah, and he he did that, he put you in that position for a reason, for his his glory. Uh, and I wholeheartedly feel that way. Uh I live my life that way.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Yeah, and so I think what we come back to Titus, um, that whole chapter three, I think, and one of main Paul's main messages was humility does not weaken leadership. Okay, it cleanses it, it strengthened it. That's exactly right. Um and and and so it's like humble, being humble, it doesn't mean thinking uh less of yourself. It means thinking of yourself less and thinking of others more. And and uh for some people that's uh that's not a problem, other people it's a real challenge. Um but humility is such a key to being a good leader, it just is.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah, 100%. I love the the so the line in the song by Casting Crowns, uh Who Am I? It says, I know who I am because I know who you are. And it's nice. Give the glory to him because that's who made you who you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

So so one last thing about Titus, and this comes from chapter three. Um really um leadership is not just about informing people, not just about sharing information.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Um it's about forming people, not just informing people.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

That's a good statement.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Yeah, molding people, molding people, and you do that through your actions. If your words and your actions are the exact same, people are gonna notice. And over time, they begin to model that behavior, and that's what you want.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Um you can be a positive role model or a negative role model. Just yeah, 100%. Yeah, make sure it's positive.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

And and so it's sometimes it's healthy, even though it might be difficult, to do an evaluation of yourself by your staff or get some feedback from a few people that you trust, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Um great idea.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

And and so you think, okay, how can I be better at this? Or how can you I mean, if you're a good leader, you're gonna do a yearly evaluation of your people, but the question is when do you have people evaluate you? And you have to be, you know, pretty solid to be able to handle that. Um, but it's always good. You don't want to get a whole organization to do it, but you want to get a few people who you trust to be honest, and and do that. And it's always always beneficial.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Being so many times in a business, you can look by evaluating yourself as a leader, looking at the bottom line. Are you making progress in our company? And that's not necessarily the best thing. You need to evaluate, have other people evaluate you, not just the bottom line at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah. And I'll leave you that one last challenge question, you know, to look at your company and and does your leadership produce people who merely know more, or do you produce people that live better and uh or represent your company better, you know? So one of the things.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

So we try to end it up with some dad jokes. Dad jokes? I mean what what are we talking about, Dan? Well, here's here's the thing. Um, yesterday, uh see if I had some psychic abilities. Okay. So I started out in something simple. I was trying to melt an ice cube with my mind. It worked, but it took a long, long time.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Um let me think. Yeah, I give it to you. I was almost gonna give you applause on that.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

Okay, you know, we've got uh we have this Artemis spaceship, you know, and back, you know, so exciting. So next couple days.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

No. Nope. I don't you lost me on the book.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

The cow didn't make it.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

That's that's one of the best ones I think everybody.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I'd tell you all of uh a joke about paper, but but it's it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

I couldn't write that story.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Okay, what did Ebenezer Scrooge call his dog? I do not know. Bahum Pug. Oh my gosh, I got a little tweaky bird here.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

From earlier in the earlier in the podcast, I told you about that department store. Uh what reason I was in the department store because I went looking for some camouflage pants, but I couldn't find any.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

All right, Dr. Pete, take us out. One more, one more good joke. Yeah, we got you got one more in here.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

Um Well, I'm I've got about a hundred more, but I'll just I'll just do one.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

A thousand more. Don't even.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

Okay. Why did the banana fail its driving test?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Uh he slipped up.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Because it kept peeling out.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Nice. All righty. Well, Chuck, if if people wanted to become a better swimmer, get Dr. P off these jokes.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

I'm not going to water as often.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Or not suck down water like Dr. Posey used to do because he breathed wrong. A lot better. Yeah. A whole lot of things. Is there a website we find you, or is there anything they could give?

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Name of our team, teamridgely.com. Ridgely as far as?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Teamridgely.com. You guys have been wonderful. Thank you for having us. Thank you for uh coming to join us. We're gonna we're gonna have you back.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Follow up on that information. We swim at the pool at Texas Westleyan University. Okay. On Monday, Wednesday, Friday at nine o'clock. Right. Uh here not too long.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

We're gonna swim at the pool and the Forest Park pool down uh near the Fort Worth Zoo. It's really exciting having swimming and listening to the lions roar and the birds being fed in the morning. It's wonderful. We also swim in the morning at 5 30 as well. That's when Dean is still asleep. I'll get up there at 5 30.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Well, I mean, he is old. Yeah, that is the truth. He goes to bed at 8. He doesn't wake up till like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

No, I wake up when I jump in the pool. That's when I wake up. Hey, Chuck, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. It was awesome. Thanks to you.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Wonderful. Thank you. And uh, you know, uh, thank you for joining us today. Um if you like us, uh uh hit that subscribe button, come hang out with us, listen to more. And other than that, Dr. P take us out. Hey, make it a great day. Thanks for listening. Thank you guys.